EP 13 · The Party Wreckers Podcast

The Most Interesting Man in the World

Jul 8, 202252 minHosted by Matt Brown

Listen now

Follow the show so the next episode shows up in your app.

About this episode

Matt and Sam sat down back in early June to talk to Dan Braman, owner of Mellon Creek Outfitters in Texas. Dan is in recovery and is the father of a man Sam Intervened on two years ago. He come on to tell his story and how the intervention cha...

Episode transcript

Read the full transcript(14,769 words)

[matt_brown]: 0:02

hey everybody welcome to another episode of the party records podcast my name is matt brown and as always i'm here with sam davis my co host out of virginia sam what do you know

[Sam Davis]: 0:10

oh i don't know it man how re you doing today

[matt_brown]: 0:13

i'm good

[Sam Davis]: 0:14

[matt_brown]: 0:14

i'm good it's a monday morning it's thirty nine degrees here in bend oregon right now we had a little bit of a cold snap over over the week end a lot of rain no snow thank goodness in june but did get some rain and it's still staying a little bit cool but its sposed to warm up later today i'm hoping to get out and do something outside later today how about

[Sam Davis]: 0:31

[matt_brown]: 0:31

you

[Sam Davis]: 0:32

it's i'm glad i'm

[matt_brown]: 0:33

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 0:33

not where it's thirty whatever degrees outside you lost me when you said thirty so i am sitting out here in virginia sitting on the shoreline right now it's about eighty five it's going to be pushing close to a hundred with the humidity

[matt_brown]: 0:47

[Sam Davis]: 0:47

and all heat index but it's it's a toast day outside

[matt_brown]: 0:50

okay

[Sam Davis]: 0:51

and i love it i wouldn't trade that for thirty degrees or thirty eight degrees or third nine degrees or anything near near that tell you that right now

[matt_brown]: 0:58

[Sam Davis]: 0:59

so you have it

[matt_brown]: 0:59

[Sam Davis]: 0:59

matt how's work

[matt_brown]: 1:01

i you know work has been good excuse me work has been busy i haven't had any interventions in the last week but lot of you know this is the time of year where a lot of college kids are coming home from school families haven't seen them for a while and you know if there are good manipulators like i was they're going to keep their parents kind of out of the loop on what's really going on

[Dan]: 1:24

[matt_brown]: 1:24

and be telling them stories and once they get home and they've lost twenty pounds and all their electronics are sitting in the pawn shop and mom and dad are wondering what the heck is going on that's when i start usually getting phone calls around college kids coming home from there their spring semester so those are the kind of calls i'm getting right now and just setting some things up for the coming weeks how about you

[Sam Davis]: 1:44

well i've been busy with interventions the last three that i've done unfortunately my pride hates for me to admit this but the last three that i've done did not enter treat that day one was

[matt_brown]: 1:57

[Sam Davis]: 1:57

because he was actually thirty days sober struggling quite a bit with his personal relationships and his behavior he wasn't acting thirty days so but he actually was thirty days without substance and the

[matt_brown]: 2:09

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 2:09

other two had options and i'm talking and about brilliant people you know i've always said that we don't i've never met a dumb addicted individual now we've all done dumb things but i've never met

[matt_brown]: 2:22

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 2:22

a dumb addicted individual this these other

[matt_brown]: 2:25

[Sam Davis]: 2:25

two and even that other one brilliant people

[matt_brown]: 2:28

[Sam Davis]: 2:28

i mean here's an individual that as created

[matt_brown]: 2:31

[Sam Davis]: 2:32

a way naturally two

[matt_brown]: 2:37

yah

[Sam Davis]: 2:37

freeze alcohol back in my day i'd have a jar of moonshine in the freezer for as long as i wanted it in the freezer and it would never freeze right and i mean it's very difficult

[matt_brown]: 2:47

right

[Sam Davis]: 2:47

to freeze out all this guy had had found a way mixing natural ingredients freeze alcohol

[matt_brown]: 2:55

[Sam Davis]: 2:55

and make desserts out of him he's a

[matt_brown]: 2:58

i was going to say doesn't freezing it make it harder to drink i don't think i don't want

[Sam Davis]: 3:00

habit

[matt_brown]: 3:00

to do

[Sam Davis]: 3:01

you

[matt_brown]: 3:01

that

[Sam Davis]: 3:01

can suck on it with that spoon just like ice green mix it with some sprinkles and you got

[matt_brown]: 3:05

[Sam Davis]: 3:05

a good little cocktail but

[matt_brown]: 3:06

[Sam Davis]: 3:06

you know just the brilliance

[matt_brown]: 3:08

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 3:08

of it all and it's been unable to go anywhere because of his tuation and when we approached him it just went

[matt_brown]: 3:15

yes

[Sam Davis]: 3:16

from zero to a hundred and

[matt_brown]: 3:18

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 3:19

you know just obnoxiousness real quick

[matt_brown]: 3:22

yes

[Dan]: 3:22

[Sam Davis]: 3:22

and

[matt_brown]: 3:23

and that's i guess

[Dan]: 3:24

[matt_brown]: 3:24

that's a part of it that i don't understand because with me when i drank i wanted to get as much in me as quickly as possible so to sit there and talk about making desserts out of it and putting wrinkles on it like that just doesn't achieve the desired effect as quickly for me that doesn't make sense to me

[Sam Davis]: 3:39

if they had that when i was coming along that'd

[matt_brown]: 3:41

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 3:41

be five hundred pounds and dead

[matt_brown]: 3:43

[Sam Davis]: 3:43

probably because no ce cream and

[matt_brown]: 3:46

diabetes

[Sam Davis]: 3:46

yea all of that all of that but i even said you know i like look man i know

[matt_brown]: 3:50

[Sam Davis]: 3:51

you know i may know some people that may be interest in this that was my approach because he was not at all saying that he had a problem and

[matt_brown]: 3:58

[Sam Davis]: 3:58

i'm like look man you know i know some people that may be interested

[matt_brown]: 4:01

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:01

in this to help you out and push this thing along but you've got to get well you've got to go get straightened out you've got to go and get some healing done because no one i'm going to touch you until you do that

[matt_brown]: 4:11

[Sam Davis]: 4:12

he didn't bite he didn't but

[matt_brown]: 4:14

[Sam Davis]: 4:14

on it but you know he's out there

[matt_brown]: 4:16

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:16

having his experience the family has set some very healthy boundaries and

[Dan]: 4:20

[Sam Davis]: 4:20

a lot of people

[matt_brown]: 4:20

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:21

you know we're thinking that the boundaries have to be out of anger or meaning

[Dan]: 4:24

[Sam Davis]: 4:24

you shut them completely out of their life is not that way you know you and i know that and

[matt_brown]: 4:28

[Sam Davis]: 4:28

and

[matt_brown]: 4:28

not

[Sam Davis]: 4:28

you know

[matt_brown]: 4:28

at all

[Sam Davis]: 4:29

that

[matt_brown]: 4:29

but

[Sam Davis]: 4:29

but

[Dan]: 4:29

[Sam Davis]: 4:31

now the family is in a good place and they're moving on and they are still loving him and still in

[matt_brown]: 4:38

[Sam Davis]: 4:38

somewhat of some communication with him

[Dan]: 4:41

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:41

but he's on his journey

[Dan]: 4:43

[Sam Davis]: 4:44

but

[matt_brown]: 4:45

[Sam Davis]: 4:46

but yeah work has

[matt_brown]: 4:47

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:47

been busy

[Dan]: 4:48

[matt_brown]: 4:48

[Sam Davis]: 4:49

but i'm beating myself up a little bit as you know we do sometimes when you've got three in

[matt_brown]: 4:53

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:53

a row that don't go that's pretty tough you

[Dan]: 4:55

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 4:55

know

[matt_brown]: 4:56

yeah the last two that i did i had a young lady in her twenties she

[Dan]: 5:00

okay

[matt_brown]: 5:01

she was intentionally using

[Dan]: 5:02

[matt_brown]: 5:02

fennel and i don't know how

[Sam Davis]: 5:04

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:04

much of this year coming

[Dan]: 5:04

[matt_brown]: 5:05

across these days but fentonalis no longer something that people are accidentally

[Sam Davis]: 5:09

[Dan]: 5:09

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:09

finding

[Dan]: 5:09

[matt_brown]: 5:10

and having problems with this young lady and

[Sam Davis]: 5:12

[matt_brown]: 5:12

it was she and her boy

[Dan]: 5:13

yah

[matt_brown]: 5:13

friend were both there at the intervention

[Dan]: 5:14

yah

[Sam Davis]: 5:15

[matt_brown]: 5:15

i was there to intervene on her but i figured that he would likely be there and be a part of this she did end up go into treatment and i ended up taking her down to southern california to go to treatment down there but they were actively

[Sam Davis]: 5:27

[matt_brown]: 5:27

choosing

[Sam Davis]: 5:27

[matt_brown]: 5:28

to go and find fennell because it's cheaper

[Sam Davis]: 5:30

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:30

because it's more potent and

[Sam Davis]: 5:31

[matt_brown]: 5:32

it's more available than a lot of other substances i mean it's more readily available today

[Dan]: 5:35

[matt_brown]: 5:35

than harowinis at least up here in the pacific northwest and then the fall wing

[Sam Davis]: 5:40

[matt_brown]: 5:40

day i intervened in a guy who was sixty

[Sam Davis]: 5:41

[matt_brown]: 5:42

eight years old

[Dan]: 5:42

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:43

and he was

[Sam Davis]: 5:43

[matt_brown]: 5:44

he was

[Dan]: 5:44

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:44

an alcoholic and um he's also here in oregon and um that was good his boys

[Sam Davis]: 5:50

[matt_brown]: 5:50

had flown in from out of town

[Sam Davis]: 5:51

yeah

[matt_brown]: 5:52

and they we all showed up at his

[Sam Davis]: 5:54

[matt_brown]: 5:54

house and from the

[Sam Davis]: 5:55

[matt_brown]: 5:55

very beginning

[Dan]: 5:56

[matt_brown]: 5:56

it was just a really good experience

[Sam Davis]: 5:58

yes

[matt_brown]: 5:58

i think that a lot of times by the time when i intervene on older adults

[Sam Davis]: 6:02

yeh

[matt_brown]: 6:02

they get

[Dan]: 6:03

[matt_brown]: 6:03

to that point

[Sam Davis]: 6:03

[matt_brown]: 6:03

where it's like you know life has beat him up enough they're still holding on because that's all got those are the

[Sam Davis]: 6:08

[matt_brown]: 6:08

only tools they've got in their tool box but i think that

[Dan]: 6:10

[matt_brown]: 6:12

we gain a little

[Dan]: 6:13

yes

[matt_brown]: 6:13

bit of perspective on family

[Sam Davis]: 6:14

yeah

[matt_brown]: 6:14

we gain a little bit of

[Dan]: 6:15

[matt_brown]: 6:15

perspective on our

[Sam Davis]: 6:15

[matt_brown]: 6:15

own mortality the older we get and so that intervention

[Sam Davis]: 6:18

yeah

[matt_brown]: 6:18

was really quite quite

[Dan]: 6:19

yeah

[matt_brown]: 6:19

nice

[Sam Davis]: 6:19

yeah

[matt_brown]: 6:20

he ended up going to treatment

[Dan]: 6:21

[Sam Davis]: 6:21

good

[matt_brown]: 6:21

as well

[Sam Davis]: 6:21

those

[matt_brown]: 6:21

but that was that was over a week ago

[Sam Davis]: 6:23

those

[matt_brown]: 6:23

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:23

are those are always good powerful interventions you know when you've got family

[matt_brown]: 6:27

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:28

coming in from

[Dan]: 6:28

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:28

out of town a lot of families want o you know can we do face

[matt_brown]: 6:31

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:31

time or can we just

[matt_brown]: 6:33

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:33

write a letter and have someone else read it there is nothing that compares to family showing up from out of state that have taken the time to fly in drop everything that is demonstrating that addicted

[matt_brown]: 6:45

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:45

individual how much they loved him and how serious the situation is and how serious the family is about doing something about it and being connected together to do it there's just nothing compared

[matt_brown]: 6:56

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 6:56

to that

[matt_brown]: 6:58

during covid i think there was a lot of fear in flying and a lot of fear around just being around other people

[Sam Davis]: 7:02

[matt_brown]: 7:02

and so i did find that i did more of that

[Sam Davis]: 7:04

[matt_brown]: 7:04

with zoom and with face time

[Sam Davis]: 7:06

yeah

[matt_brown]: 7:06

and

[Dan]: 7:06

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 7:06

yeah

[matt_brown]: 7:06

interventions with family mothers it just didn't feel comfortable flying but now that the pandemic started to ebb a little bit i find that i'm really pushing people to show up in person

[Sam Davis]: 7:14

yeah

[matt_brown]: 7:14

more and more it is more powerful

[Sam Davis]: 7:15

definitely

[matt_brown]: 7:16

here right

[Sam Davis]: 7:16

we got to take this

[Dan]: 7:17

[Sam Davis]: 7:17

we got

[matt_brown]: 7:17

[Sam Davis]: 7:17

to take the old stone wall approach

[matt_brown]: 7:18

[Sam Davis]: 7:19

and that is

[Dan]: 7:20

[matt_brown]: 7:20

[Sam Davis]: 7:20

the time of our death

[Dan]: 7:22

[Sam Davis]: 7:22

is all ready predetermined

[matt_brown]: 7:23

[Sam Davis]: 7:23

i believe and we got to show up and go to work we got to saddle up you know so that's my thing

[matt_brown]: 7:30

yeah i agree

[Sam Davis]: 7:32

[matt_brown]: 7:32

i agree i didn't stop working during the pandemic there were times when

[Sam Davis]: 7:34

[matt_brown]: 7:34

i was on a plane i was one of two people

[Sam Davis]: 7:36

[matt_brown]: 7:36

on a plane at one point and you

[Sam Davis]: 7:38

[matt_brown]: 7:38

know flying on this big seven thirty seven across

[Sam Davis]: 7:40

yeah

[matt_brown]: 7:40

the country and there's only one of i on the plane with both got the bump up into first class it was kind

[Sam Davis]: 7:45

[matt_brown]: 7:45

of nice but you know

[Sam Davis]: 7:46

[matt_brown]: 7:46

it was like you know the

[Sam Davis]: 7:48

[matt_brown]: 7:48

people that i work with people that you work with are going to die of addiction before they

[Sam Davis]: 7:51

definitely

[matt_brown]: 7:51

dive covid

[Sam Davis]: 7:52

definitely

[matt_brown]: 7:52

most likely

[Sam Davis]: 7:52

and what does it say in the

[matt_brown]: 7:53

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 7:53

literature of the recovery

[matt_brown]: 7:54

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 7:54

literature is that we can go to the most sordid places on earth safe and protected

[matt_brown]: 7:58

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 7:59

as long as we're doing god's work right that's what we're doing

[matt_brown]: 8:01

yeah that's

[Sam Davis]: 8:02

[matt_brown]: 8:02

right

[Sam Davis]: 8:02

fear not saddle up head in the battle you know

[matt_brown]: 8:07

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 8:08

but we've

[matt_brown]: 8:08

absolutely

[Sam Davis]: 8:08

got a guy here today

[matt_brown]: 8:09

well sam i was just going to say that we got somebody special on with us today only our second interview

[Sam Davis]: 8:14

yeah

[matt_brown]: 8:14

of the podcast go ahead

[Sam Davis]: 8:15

but you know this guy you know the doses man right the most interesting man in the world you've seen those commercials

[Dan]: 8:23

[matt_brown]: 8:24

i have

[Sam Davis]: 8:25

this is it in the flesh

[matt_brown]: 8:27

[Sam Davis]: 8:28

this is i'll consider

[matt_brown]: 8:30

yeah

[Dan]: 8:30

okay

[Sam Davis]: 8:30

one of the most interesting men

[Dan]: 8:31

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 8:31

in the world his name is dan is a friend of mine and asked him to come on because he's got an interesting story from both perspectives

[matt_brown]: 8:39

[Sam Davis]: 8:40

and he is a man

[matt_brown]: 8:42

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 8:42

who loves the hot loves the fish loves his country loves his family and i'm

[matt_brown]: 8:47

[Sam Davis]: 8:47

just glad to have him here let's welcome dan hey dan

[matt_brown]: 8:51

[Dan]: 8:52

how is it going guys

[Sam Davis]: 8:53

it's going well

[matt_brown]: 8:54

dan it's good to have you here

[Dan]: 8:56

thank you i'm glad to be here

[Sam Davis]: 8:57

yeah so dan

[matt_brown]: 8:58

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 8:59

why don't you tell us how did you get here

[Dan]: 9:02

yeah

[matt_brown]: 9:02

yah

[Sam Davis]: 9:03

you've had some interesting

[matt_brown]: 9:04

yeah

[Dan]: 9:04

i got

[Sam Davis]: 9:04

avenues

[Dan]: 9:04

here

[Sam Davis]: 9:05

in your life what's tell us what's

[matt_brown]: 9:07

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 9:07

what we need to know

[Dan]: 9:10

well

[matt_brown]: 9:10

well let's let's let me let's start out by saying where

[Sam Davis]: 9:12

yeah

[matt_brown]: 9:12

here is first tell us a little bit about

[Sam Davis]: 9:13

yeah

[matt_brown]: 9:14

yourself dan

[Dan]: 9:15

well i'm from south

[Sam Davis]: 9:16

[Dan]: 9:17

texas

[matt_brown]: 9:17

yeah

[Dan]: 9:18

own a big hunting business down there that's predominantly what i do for about two under night days a year do a little fishing during the all season but mainly the big hunting business you know that transformed into television shows which is called wild life or t v the outfitting

[matt_brown]: 9:37

yeah

[Dan]: 9:37

business is mellow creek outfitters so i pretty much stay outside all of the time in south

[matt_brown]: 9:42

yeah

[Dan]: 9:43

tex is not very far far from corpus christi

[matt_brown]: 9:47

very nice

[Sam Davis]: 9:49

how long have you been doing that

[Dan]: 9:52

i've been professionally hunting for a very long time thirty two years

[Sam Davis]: 9:59

is it a family

[matt_brown]: 9:59

[Sam Davis]: 9:59

business that it started with

[Dan]: 10:02

no no i was kind of forced into that business due to a girl

[matt_brown]: 10:11

[Dan]: 10:11

that i kind of liked and my dad didn't kind of like so i got to choose between her or family business i had

[matt_brown]: 10:21

[Dan]: 10:21

to go somewhere else and figure out what i was going to do

[Sam Davis]: 10:25

what that look like

[matt_brown]: 10:26

okay

[Dan]: 10:28

it looks scary as hell at first but i was pretty much determined riding on you know an eighteen year old ego now trying to figure out what i was going to do without any help but i got very fortunate in meeting the right people i got also

[matt_brown]: 10:48

[Dan]: 10:48

again fortunate in you know where when i left where i went you know you know the cards kind of lined up it could very easily going the other way but you know it's not anything that i did in particular i just stumbled upon the right people to be around

[Sam Davis]: 11:04

what was the family business

[Dan]: 11:06

[Sam Davis]: 11:06

if you don't mind me asking

[Dan]: 11:08

ranching you know and all the facets involved was ranching

[matt_brown]: 11:12

kay yeah

[Dan]: 11:14

you know cattle horses live stock agricultural fields that kind of thing

[matt_brown]: 11:19

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 11:20

in that family business had been around for how long

[Dan]: 11:24

this is over two hundred years now

[Sam Davis]: 11:27

two hundred years on that

[Dan]: 11:29

i'm back i'm back in

[matt_brown]: 11:30

okay

[Dan]: 11:30

now by the way so i can't

[Sam Davis]: 11:31

[Dan]: 11:31

know

[matt_brown]: 11:32

[Dan]: 11:32

kind of oversee things

[matt_brown]: 11:34

[Sam Davis]: 11:34

h but when you were

[matt_brown]: 11:36

h yeah

[Sam Davis]: 11:36

eighteen and you made

[matt_brown]: 11:37

[Sam Davis]: 11:37

that decision to chase that girl what's your daddy say

[Dan]: 11:41

i was out done

[Sam Davis]: 11:44

he had a boundary

[Dan]: 11:47

you bet

[Sam Davis]: 11:48

he stuck

[Dan]: 11:49

and i didn't go and i didn't go the direction he thought that boundary would send me but the truth be told he was right but then again had i not done it then i would have missed out on doing what i loved to do because i've literally never worked a day in my life i may have sweated and cut myself up bled a little bit and had some worries and anxieties

[matt_brown]: 12:11

yeah

[Dan]: 12:12

but i've enjoyed every day of it and i still do now

[Sam Davis]: 12:16

in that day and

[matt_brown]: 12:17

[Sam Davis]: 12:17

i know you have i mean it's all

[Dan]: 12:19

yah

[Sam Davis]: 12:19

over your face when i see you you really

[Dan]: 12:21

yah

[Sam Davis]: 12:21

enjoy doing what you do and you're good at it you have a passion for it but that day

[matt_brown]: 12:26

[Sam Davis]: 12:26

when your deity approached you with that it seemed like a really dark time for him and for you did it not mean it was not a good

[Dan]: 12:34

[Sam Davis]: 12:34

day

[Dan]: 12:35

seemed like a very dark it seemed like a very

[matt_brown]: 12:37

yeah

[Dan]: 12:37

dark time for me but i don't think that that anyone can understand his personality without having known him he was very steadfast in

[matt_brown]: 12:52

yeah

[Dan]: 12:52

his decision and now

[matt_brown]: 12:55

yeah

[Dan]: 12:55

it didn't seem like a hard day or a bad day for him whatsoever it was his way or it wasn't going to be and you know

[matt_brown]: 13:03

yeah

[Dan]: 13:03

he was just that hard that that's just how it was

[matt_brown]: 13:07

so let me let me ask you dan because i don't think you know as a dad myself it's

[Dan]: 13:12

yeah

[matt_brown]: 13:12

not an easy

[Dan]: 13:13

[matt_brown]: 13:14

choice to arrive at to say you're

[Dan]: 13:17

yeah

[matt_brown]: 13:17

out as you put it

[Dan]: 13:18

[matt_brown]: 13:19

what was the relationship like with your dad growing up

[Dan]: 13:21

absolutely

[matt_brown]: 13:21

when you talk about

[Dan]: 13:22

absolutely phenomenal

[matt_brown]: 13:24

okay

[Dan]: 13:24

there has never been and never will be a man that i've

[Sam Davis]: 13:27

yeah

[Dan]: 13:27

loved or respected more than he he was absolutely the smartest man i've ever known most capable man i've ever known and the kindest man i've never known but at the same time he had a he had an idea of how people would be most especially his family members and they either aligned with that idea or they didn't

[matt_brown]: 13:52

[Dan]: 13:52

and he absolutely refused to be around anyone that didn't walked that line and it didn't matter who you were

[matt_brown]: 14:01

okay

[Sam Davis]: 14:03

but there has to

[Dan]: 14:04

it's a very unique a very unique personality and one that's probably pretty difficult for someone that wasn't

[matt_brown]: 14:10

okay

[Dan]: 14:10

involved with him to understand but that's probably the best way that i can describe it

[Sam Davis]: 14:16

they had to

[Dan]: 14:17

[matt_brown]: 14:17

it sounds you've mended things though right

[Dan]: 14:19

pardon oh yeah yeah we mended

[matt_brown]: 14:21

it sounds

[Dan]: 14:21

things

[matt_brown]: 14:21

like you were able to mend things

[Dan]: 14:23

absolutely

[matt_brown]: 14:23

[Dan]: 14:24

well before he passed away um you know everything was fine for a lot of years after that and actually looked back on it jokingly you know in many instances and he still didn't agree with the direction that i took as far as what i do but he couldn't deny my success at it and so we just agree to disagree but everything ended perfectly

[matt_brown]: 14:48

yeah

[Dan]: 14:48

fine

[Sam Davis]: 14:49

i know you had told me some of the one of the decisions that

[matt_brown]: 14:52

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 14:53

you had made financially

[Dan]: 14:54

[Sam Davis]: 14:55

what was his

[Dan]: 14:56

[Sam Davis]: 14:56

it was so funny

[matt_brown]: 14:57

[Sam Davis]: 14:57

the way you said it

[Dan]: 14:58

no he told me that he said you know i'm not going to get into the specifics of that but he told me said you're you're damn fool that that doesn't exist that's crazy it was something involving you know technology move that a man coming from his era just could not fathom and it turned out

[matt_brown]: 15:19

[Dan]: 15:19

you know really well and even after that you know he said that you know well if you brought me ten more just like it i'd still tell you you're nuts ye

[Sam Davis]: 15:31

what did he say and

[matt_brown]: 15:32

what

[Sam Davis]: 15:33

we can edit

[Dan]: 15:33

[Sam Davis]: 15:33

this out dan we don't

[matt_brown]: 15:34

[Sam Davis]: 15:34

have to include it but what he said all of this can be

[matt_brown]: 15:37

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 15:37

edited even if we don't we can break in a second you know but what i what he said i still laugh

[Dan]: 15:43

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 15:43

about it he said when when he showed him the success of it he said he said what

[matt_brown]: 15:49

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 15:49

do you say do you still think i'm a dumb son of a bitch now or or

[Dan]: 15:53

yeah and he said yes

[Sam Davis]: 15:55

yeah

[Dan]: 15:56

you

[matt_brown]: 15:56

[Dan]: 15:56

said you're a stupid son of a bitch

[Sam Davis]: 15:57

but you also might be the luckiest son of

[matt_brown]: 15:59

[Sam Davis]: 15:59

a bitch right

[Dan]: 16:01

yeah yeah but you also might be the luckiest on a bit jove ever seen uh

[matt_brown]: 16:06

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 16:06

so when

[Dan]: 16:07

[Sam Davis]: 16:07

do you want to get into you want to get into your

[matt_brown]: 16:09

[Sam Davis]: 16:09

rankin and what's your story look like a little bit

[Dan]: 16:11

whatever

[Sam Davis]: 16:11

dan

[Dan]: 16:12

yeah

[matt_brown]: 16:12

yeah

[Dan]: 16:12

it's fine it's fine yeah

[matt_brown]: 16:15

[Dan]: 16:15

i don't mind talking about my problems with it whatsoever

[Sam Davis]: 16:19

and what a

[Dan]: 16:20

i may be a bit i might be a bit vague on

[matt_brown]: 16:23

yeah

[Dan]: 16:23

my son just because i haven't asked him about

[matt_brown]: 16:27

rightly

[Dan]: 16:27

[matt_brown]: 16:27

[Dan]: 16:27

he's

[matt_brown]: 16:28

yeah

[Dan]: 16:28

a grown man and we have that

[matt_brown]: 16:29

[Dan]: 16:29

kind of respect for each other you know i mean he's doing well he's kicking to major ass he's

[matt_brown]: 16:35

[Dan]: 16:35

a great father he's getting ready to be a husband he's already text to me this morning the normal text which i've gotten for two years

[matt_brown]: 16:43

[Dan]: 16:44

now and that is good morning

[matt_brown]: 16:46

yeah

[Dan]: 16:47

dad i know you're worried but i made it another day

[Sam Davis]: 16:49

he does it every day

[matt_brown]: 16:50

yeah

[Dan]: 16:52

every day for

[Sam Davis]: 16:53

yeah

[Dan]: 16:53

two years

[matt_brown]: 16:54

that's awesome

[Dan]: 16:55

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 16:56

you know stephanie

[matt_brown]: 16:57

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 16:57

had said we were at kiote hunting

[matt_brown]: 16:59

yah

[Sam Davis]: 16:59

she had said that um she said

[matt_brown]: 17:03

[Sam Davis]: 17:03

you know i had written down on a piece of paper everything that that i felt like he would have had to do in order to get

[Dan]: 17:10

[Sam Davis]: 17:10

back and have a relationship with me and she said do you know that he

[Dan]: 17:15

mhm

[Sam Davis]: 17:15

did every bit of that plus more and she said he

[Dan]: 17:19

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 17:19

never knew what i had written down on paper he never knew what i had put in my journal but he's done that plus some

[Dan]: 17:25

yeah

[matt_brown]: 17:26

[Dan]: 17:26

yep

[Sam Davis]: 17:27

[Dan]: 17:28

he's doing good

[Sam Davis]: 17:29

yeah

[Dan]: 17:30

doing good

[Sam Davis]: 17:30

yeah so you know i don't you know i know that

[Dan]: 17:33

[Sam Davis]: 17:33

we don't want to cross any lines here or you know talk about his story but if you'd be open to talking you're

[matt_brown]: 17:39

[Sam Davis]: 17:40

perception or your

[Dan]: 17:41

[Sam Davis]: 17:41

experience

[Dan]: 17:41

yeah i'm

[matt_brown]: 17:42

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 17:42

around

[Dan]: 17:42

hundred

[Sam Davis]: 17:42

that

[Dan]: 17:42

percent

[Sam Davis]: 17:42

story

[Dan]: 17:44

yeah

[matt_brown]: 17:44

[Dan]: 17:44

absolutely well talk about

[Sam Davis]: 17:46

yeah

[Dan]: 17:46

you know whatever i feel

[matt_brown]: 17:47

[Dan]: 17:47

like well do so quite maintaining

[matt_brown]: 17:49

[Dan]: 17:50

some of his you know anonymity

[Sam Davis]: 17:52

[matt_brown]: 17:52

[Dan]: 17:53

but anything about myself i'm happy to discuss any of that

[Sam Davis]: 17:56

all right

[Dan]: 17:57

because

[matt_brown]: 17:57

yeah

[Dan]: 17:58

i was an absolute

[Sam Davis]: 17:58

yeah

[Dan]: 18:00

useless drunk

[matt_brown]: 18:00

yeah

[Dan]: 18:00

son of a bitch there for a year or dude

[Sam Davis]: 18:02

right

[matt_brown]: 18:04

when did that start

[Sam Davis]: 18:05

[Dan]: 18:05

well

[matt_brown]: 18:06

[Sam Davis]: 18:06

[Dan]: 18:06

my family is

[Sam Davis]: 18:07

[Dan]: 18:08

just the collection of alcoholic

[matt_brown]: 18:09

[Dan]: 18:10

my dad too i've never seen him

[Sam Davis]: 18:12

yeah

[Dan]: 18:12

take a stumbled step or slurred

[Sam Davis]: 18:14

[Dan]: 18:14

word he was basically drunk till

[Sam Davis]: 18:16

[Dan]: 18:16

he died uh my grandmother both my great uncles myself

[Sam Davis]: 18:22

[matt_brown]: 18:23

yeah

[Dan]: 18:24

start i don't i can't tell you when it started because drinking

[Sam Davis]: 18:26

[Dan]: 18:28

was

[Sam Davis]: 18:28

[Dan]: 18:30

something that everybody in the family

[Sam Davis]: 18:32

yeah

[Dan]: 18:32

did i've got pictures of me drinking bear nine

[Sam Davis]: 18:35

[Dan]: 18:35

years old

[Sam Davis]: 18:37

[Dan]: 18:37

oh but i think it became a

[Sam Davis]: 18:40

[Dan]: 18:40

problem

[Sam Davis]: 18:41

[Dan]: 18:41

when my

[Sam Davis]: 18:43

[Dan]: 18:43

dad

[Sam Davis]: 18:44

[Dan]: 18:44

was

[matt_brown]: 18:45

yeah

[Dan]: 18:45

really really

[Sam Davis]: 18:46

[Dan]: 18:46

a person that liked my first wife

[Sam Davis]: 18:48

yeah

[Dan]: 18:48

very very much and and i caught

[Sam Davis]: 18:51

yeah

[Dan]: 18:51

her with with a couple of different dudes

[Sam Davis]: 18:53

[matt_brown]: 18:54

[Dan]: 18:55

and i didn't want to get rid

[matt_brown]: 18:57

[Dan]: 18:57

of her because of my respect

[Sam Davis]: 18:58

[Dan]: 18:58

for him and i started

[Sam Davis]: 19:02

[Dan]: 19:02

[Sam Davis]: 19:03

[Dan]: 19:03

medicating

[Sam Davis]: 19:04

[Dan]: 19:05

because of my shame and embarrassment i feel like because cause

[Sam Davis]: 19:08

[Dan]: 19:08

this was in a in a small town and a town that my family is

[Sam Davis]: 19:14

[Dan]: 19:14

obviously very

[Sam Davis]: 19:15

[Dan]: 19:15

well known and when i say a small town

[matt_brown]: 19:17

[Dan]: 19:17

i mean less than fifteen hundred

[Sam Davis]: 19:18

[Dan]: 19:18

people and you know there's basically

[Sam Davis]: 19:21

yeah

[Dan]: 19:21

one white

[Sam Davis]: 19:22

[Dan]: 19:22

jag war car in the entire county which belong

[Sam Davis]: 19:25

[Dan]: 19:25

to my then

[Sam Davis]: 19:27

[Dan]: 19:27

life and it was parked at the hotel in town that's thirty dollars a night that ship didn't add up you know and the people knew what was

[Sam Davis]: 19:33

[Dan]: 19:33

going on and i started that's when i really

[Sam Davis]: 19:37

[Dan]: 19:37

really waiting on five o'clock

[matt_brown]: 19:40

[Dan]: 19:40

in the

[Sam Davis]: 19:41

[Dan]: 19:41

evening turned it up to a twenty four hour every waking moment

[Sam Davis]: 19:45

[Dan]: 19:45

type thing

[Sam Davis]: 19:47

yeah oh

[matt_brown]: 19:48

you said that went on for a couple of years

[Dan]: 19:51

yeah like that

[matt_brown]: 19:51

[Dan]: 19:52

probably went on for about two and a half or three years

[Sam Davis]: 19:54

oh yeah

[matt_brown]: 19:56

so at what

[Sam Davis]: 19:57

yeah

[matt_brown]: 19:57

point did you decide

[Sam Davis]: 19:57

[matt_brown]: 19:58

that something needed to change

[Dan]: 19:59

actually

[Sam Davis]: 20:00

yeah

[Dan]: 20:00

that woman and if we

[matt_brown]: 20:03

[Dan]: 20:03

could

[Sam Davis]: 20:03

[Dan]: 20:05

is there

[Sam Davis]: 20:06

yeah

[Dan]: 20:06

a way we could

[matt_brown]: 20:07

yeah

[Dan]: 20:07

word that so you guys because i think that's something

[matt_brown]: 20:09

yeah

[Dan]: 20:09

that needs to be kept in here but i don't want to throw my son's mother under the bust s any of that thing

[matt_brown]: 20:16

yeah

[Dan]: 20:16

you know

[matt_brown]: 20:17

sure how would you like

[Sam Davis]: 20:17

[matt_brown]: 20:18

to say it

[Dan]: 20:19

i would like to say

[matt_brown]: 20:19

yeah

[Dan]: 20:20

let me start that

[Sam Davis]: 20:20

okay

[Dan]: 20:20

over then i

[matt_brown]: 20:22

[Dan]: 20:22

think it all began i think it all began extremely

[Sam Davis]: 20:24

[Dan]: 20:26

to the extreme

[Sam Davis]: 20:26

[Dan]: 20:27

level i started having

[Sam Davis]: 20:29

yeah

[Dan]: 20:29

some troubles with my marriage

[matt_brown]: 20:31

yeah

[Dan]: 20:31

and i was medicating that anxiety and stuff

[Sam Davis]: 20:34

[matt_brown]: 20:34

yeah

[Dan]: 20:35

you know with alcohol i had always drank but i usually wait until you know five

[Sam Davis]: 20:40

[Dan]: 20:40

p m or i'm kind of a

[Sam Davis]: 20:42

[Dan]: 20:43

reason for celebration and things of that

[Sam Davis]: 20:45

[Dan]: 20:45

nature but once

[matt_brown]: 20:47

yeah

[Dan]: 20:47

i started having those troubles and i couldn't

[Sam Davis]: 20:48

[Dan]: 20:49

fix them and you know that i was you know ashamed

[matt_brown]: 20:53

yeah

[Dan]: 20:53

of the fact that i couldn't fix them and embarrassed and so forth

[Sam Davis]: 20:56

[Dan]: 20:56

and so on that's when it

[matt_brown]: 20:58

[Dan]: 20:58

turned into a real problem that lasted for about two and a half

[Sam Davis]: 21:01

[matt_brown]: 21:01

i can

[Dan]: 21:01

years and you know during

[Sam Davis]: 21:04

[Dan]: 21:04

that time

[Sam Davis]: 21:05

[Dan]: 21:06

i made some

[matt_brown]: 21:07

yeah

[Dan]: 21:08

truly illogical decisions i got a finger bitten off

[matt_brown]: 21:10

[Sam Davis]: 21:10

[Dan]: 21:10

by a dog

[matt_brown]: 21:11

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 21:12

[Dan]: 21:12

[matt_brown]: 21:13

yeah

[Dan]: 21:14

i passed out in the bed

[Sam Davis]: 21:15

[Dan]: 21:15

and daniel was in the bed with me which i was awake

[Sam Davis]: 21:19

[Dan]: 21:19

when he got in the bed with me and he had fallen out of the bed and i never knew

[Sam Davis]: 21:23

[Dan]: 21:23

it woke up across from my

[Sam Davis]: 21:26

[Dan]: 21:26

house apparently i swam the intercoastal

[Sam Davis]: 21:29

[Dan]: 21:30

canal in the middle of the night with my left ice wollen

[matt_brown]: 21:32

yeah

[Dan]: 21:32

jut

[Sam Davis]: 21:33

[Dan]: 21:33

still up to this day i have

[Sam Davis]: 21:34

yeah

[Dan]: 21:34

no idea why

[Sam Davis]: 21:35

[Dan]: 21:36

or how i got over there and then finally

[matt_brown]: 21:41

[Dan]: 21:41

my son's mother told me says look you're you're going to have to

[Sam Davis]: 21:44

[Dan]: 21:45

either stop

[Sam Davis]: 21:46

[Dan]: 21:46

what you're doing

[Sam Davis]: 21:47

yeah

[Dan]: 21:48

or i'm taking

[Sam Davis]: 21:49

yeah

[Dan]: 21:49

the baby and i'm going home and i didn't actually stop at that moment i walked

[Sam Davis]: 21:55

[Dan]: 21:55

outside and

[matt_brown]: 21:57

[Dan]: 21:57

on my

[Sam Davis]: 21:57

[Dan]: 21:57

driveway

[Sam Davis]: 21:59

[Dan]: 21:59

at my house in porto connor texas and i took a sift of

[Sam Davis]: 22:03

[Dan]: 22:03

a bud light and i immediately

[Sam Davis]: 22:05

[Dan]: 22:06

threw up on the on the parking lot

[Sam Davis]: 22:08

yeah

[Dan]: 22:08

and it was like congealed

[Sam Davis]: 22:10

[Dan]: 22:10

blood and i threw that mirror can away and i moved back

[Sam Davis]: 22:16

yeah

[Dan]: 22:16

home with my mom and dad i told my dad what

[Sam Davis]: 22:19

yeah

[Dan]: 22:19

i was doing

[matt_brown]: 22:20

yeah

[Dan]: 22:21

and i looked like the lady on the exorcist for about eight days was only able to eat ice cubes

[Sam Davis]: 22:27

[Dan]: 22:27

and it was at on

[matt_brown]: 22:29

[Dan]: 22:29

the

[Sam Davis]: 22:29

yeah

[Dan]: 22:29

ninth day

[Sam Davis]: 22:30

[Dan]: 22:31

i held down a you know like a half a bowl of just clear

[Sam Davis]: 22:34

[Dan]: 22:34

chicken broth out

[Sam Davis]: 22:36

[Dan]: 22:36

of a can

[matt_brown]: 22:37

yeah

[Dan]: 22:38

and that

[Sam Davis]: 22:38

[Dan]: 22:39

was this

[matt_brown]: 22:40

yes

[Dan]: 22:40

month

[Sam Davis]: 22:40

[Dan]: 22:40

twenty five years ago i never

[matt_brown]: 22:43

congratulations

[Dan]: 22:44

never had a drop since them nine days with hell

[Sam Davis]: 22:47

and that hasn't stopped you from living by any means you don't isolate yourself

[Dan]: 22:51

[Sam Davis]: 22:52

from the world there are people in your circles that

[Dan]: 22:54

[Sam Davis]: 22:55

drink and party and have a good time and you're around

[matt_brown]: 22:58

[Sam Davis]: 22:58

[Dan]: 22:59

they do and and and that's why i think that going to treatment is so important

[matt_brown]: 23:04

yeah

[Dan]: 23:05

because i did not go to treatment and first of all i don't think and i'm not tooting my own horn here when i say this but i don't think many people have the determination and the wherewithal and the will to do what i did without learning how to do it first but be that as it may i think by going to treatment i've noticed people that have

[matt_brown]: 23:25

yeah

[Dan]: 23:26

gone successfully stopped doing what they were doing

[matt_brown]: 23:30

[Dan]: 23:30

they're much able to handle

[matt_brown]: 23:33

[Dan]: 23:33

being around it better and i was it took me three

[matt_brown]: 23:37

[Dan]: 23:37

or four years after i quit even be around it you know i became angry at people i think because i couldn't do it i really don't have reason as to why and that's the only thing that makes sense i think it was a jealousy thing but after three or four years i got to where i'm fine now but i mean it doesn't

[matt_brown]: 23:57

[Dan]: 23:57

bother

[matt_brown]: 23:57

remember

[Dan]: 23:57

[matt_brown]: 23:57

that i i remember sitting in restaurants and watching people drink and being angry

[Dan]: 24:01

yeah

[matt_brown]: 24:01

at him because

[Dan]: 24:02

yeah

[matt_brown]: 24:02

they could and i couldn't

[Dan]: 24:02

i was mad

[matt_brown]: 24:03

because i didn't go to i didn't go to treatment

[Dan]: 24:04

yeah

[matt_brown]: 24:05

either and and i

[Dan]: 24:05

[matt_brown]: 24:05

tell people that i intervene on all the time if it comes up in the course of our com ersation that i didn't but i wish that i would have because it took me a lot longer to acquire the tools just like you're talking about

[Dan]: 24:16

[matt_brown]: 24:16

ook me a lot longer to acquire those tools

[Dan]: 24:18

[matt_brown]: 24:18

than it takes most people who do just take time for themselves to really focus on okay i'm going to do nothing but for the next month or so or two or three just focus on myself and get myself ready

[Dan]: 24:30

[matt_brown]: 24:30

i hear

[Sam Davis]: 24:31

[matt_brown]: 24:31

you

[Sam Davis]: 24:31

[Dan]: 24:31

[Sam Davis]: 24:31

could

[Dan]: 24:31

think

[Sam Davis]: 24:31

not

[Dan]: 24:31

[Sam Davis]: 24:32

i could not

[matt_brown]: 24:33

[Sam Davis]: 24:33

sober up the way you did or the way you did man i had to be removed i was so

[matt_brown]: 24:38

[Dan]: 24:39

[Sam Davis]: 24:40

just where i was

[matt_brown]: 24:42

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 24:42

i just

[Dan]: 24:43

[Sam Davis]: 24:43

could not pull it off i had to be removed from society

[Dan]: 24:46

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 24:47

and be put in a safe

[Dan]: 24:48

[Sam Davis]: 24:48

place and be spoon fed solution for a long

[matt_brown]: 24:54

[Sam Davis]: 24:54

long time

[matt_brown]: 24:55

well i didn't have much of a choice i was homeless

[Sam Davis]: 24:58

[matt_brown]: 24:58

you know i didn't i hadn't hadn't had contact with my family i didn't have a penny in my pocket i had no choice but to do it the way that i did just because i didn't have any other

[Sam Davis]: 25:06

right

[matt_brown]: 25:06

options

[Dan]: 25:07

yeah i think

[matt_brown]: 25:07

[Dan]: 25:07

it's it's definitely a far better route go to treatment i

[matt_brown]: 25:13

[Dan]: 25:13

really do for no other reason to

[Sam Davis]: 25:15

yeah

[Dan]: 25:15

learn

[matt_brown]: 25:16

[Dan]: 25:16

to not feel that anger towards other people or whatever it was that i was feeling i just assume that's what it is i've never been able to make

[matt_brown]: 25:24

yeah

[Dan]: 25:25

make sense of it one way or the other and i still

[matt_brown]: 25:27

yeah

[Dan]: 25:27

to this day if i'm around somebody that's super drunk that

[matt_brown]: 25:30

[Dan]: 25:30

has to have their hands on me and screaming in my ear right here you know i mean i could hear you before you started screaming then i didn't need a hug you know i still

[Sam Davis]: 25:39

yeah

[matt_brown]: 25:39

yeah

[Dan]: 25:39

get mad but now it's more transferred into

[matt_brown]: 25:42

yeah

[Dan]: 25:43

you know i'm

[Sam Davis]: 25:43

yeah

[Dan]: 25:43

embarrassed for that person i'm like dude you're making a complete but of yourself here and

[matt_brown]: 25:48

yeah

[Dan]: 25:48

you really ought not do that and i'm also very hyper sensitive i find myself you know my wife every now and then will drink a couple of glasses of wine at dinner

[matt_brown]: 25:57

[Dan]: 25:57

she might go two months and not drink anything and you know i'll that third glass every now and then at a party come in there and i'll be like oh no you know what's going i'm like hyper sensitive to it and i have

[Sam Davis]: 26:10

[Dan]: 26:10

to check myself i'm like look man just because you

[Sam Davis]: 26:14

yeah

[Dan]: 26:14

can't

[Sam Davis]: 26:15

yeah

[Dan]: 26:15

seem to have one single experience saying that you could have three glasses of wine and then not drink for a month doesn't mean that the rest of the world is like

[matt_brown]: 26:22

yeah

[Dan]: 26:22

that but i am hyper sensitive to it

[matt_brown]: 26:25

[Sam Davis]: 26:25

now i relate

[Dan]: 26:26

i mean you know you talk about you talked about earlier

[matt_brown]: 26:28

yeah

[Dan]: 26:28

about freeze and alcohol i came up with some pretty

[matt_brown]: 26:30

yeah

[Dan]: 26:31

noteworthy things to

[matt_brown]: 26:33

[Dan]: 26:33

do as well like i'd buy those industrial strength bottles of listerine and pour it out fill it up with vodka put four drops of green food color in it set it right there by my tooth brush

[Sam Davis]: 26:44

yeah

[Dan]: 26:45

you know

[matt_brown]: 26:45

yeah

[Dan]: 26:45

i mean come on uh h

[Sam Davis]: 26:49

that's

[matt_brown]: 26:49

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 26:50

that's

[Dan]: 26:50

[Sam Davis]: 26:50

genius

[matt_brown]: 26:51

that's creative

[Sam Davis]: 26:52

yeah

[Dan]: 26:52

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 26:52

well you didn't

[Dan]: 26:53

[Sam Davis]: 26:53

have to waste

[matt_brown]: 26:53

[Sam Davis]: 26:53

a listerine there's a lot of people

[Dan]: 26:55

[Sam Davis]: 26:55

that just drink that

[Dan]: 26:57

you know

[matt_brown]: 26:57

yes

[Dan]: 26:57

i have a friend that he's still alive and he does drink glister

[matt_brown]: 27:00

okay

[Dan]: 27:00

n he also drinks rubbing alcohol and how he's not dead i don't know but he isn't

[matt_brown]: 27:04

oh i've heard of people in desperation drinking handsanitizer rubbing alcohol

[Sam Davis]: 27:09

alone

[matt_brown]: 27:09

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 27:10

i intervened

[Dan]: 27:10

i went

[Sam Davis]: 27:10

on a

[Dan]: 27:10

[Sam Davis]: 27:10

guy

[Dan]: 27:10

him he

[Sam Davis]: 27:11

one time

[Dan]: 27:11

yeah he actually

[matt_brown]: 27:12

[Dan]: 27:13

was the first person to teach daniel my son how to start

[matt_brown]: 27:17

[Dan]: 27:17

roping steers which is what he does professionally now and i went to him said linton you just gonna have

[matt_brown]: 27:22

kay

[Dan]: 27:22

to stop i said i will send you to any treatment center you want to go to and i will pay for it a hundred

[matt_brown]: 27:29

yeah

[Dan]: 27:29

percent of it and he went for forty something days

[matt_brown]: 27:36

[Dan]: 27:36

drove back home gave me a hug cried thanked me profusely was drunk

[matt_brown]: 27:42

yeah

[Dan]: 27:42

as hell by dark

[Sam Davis]: 27:43

[Dan]: 27:44

so that didn't work out

[Sam Davis]: 27:45

[Dan]: 27:45

to that

[matt_brown]: 27:45

[Sam Davis]: 27:47

is he still drinking

[Dan]: 27:49

oh yeah just more than a

[matt_brown]: 27:51

yeah

[Dan]: 27:51

fish ever dreamed of a wife's

[Sam Davis]: 27:53

[Dan]: 27:53

left in kids don't talk to him that a wheel chair he's my age what

[matt_brown]: 27:59

[Sam Davis]: 28:00

you know

[Dan]: 28:01

tried

[Sam Davis]: 28:02

i relate to you

[matt_brown]: 28:03

[Sam Davis]: 28:03

dan on

[Dan]: 28:04

[Sam Davis]: 28:05

a couple of things here

[matt_brown]: 28:07

[Dan]: 28:07

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 28:07

is that you know i stayed in a relationship

[Dan]: 28:09

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 28:10

longer than i should have for reasons about selfish reasons for myself a lot of fear fear about being alone fear of change which i don't know if that if you relate to any

[matt_brown]: 28:20

[Sam Davis]: 28:21

of that but that was my story but i relate to you about staying in a relationship much longer than i should have in it really affecting and challenging these belief systems that i was brought up with and some that i had made up along the way about how a real relationship is and about a real man is and you know i was certainly using

[matt_brown]: 28:43

[Sam Davis]: 28:43

and experimenting with drugs and parting and having a good

[Dan]: 28:46

[Sam Davis]: 28:46

time

[Dan]: 28:47

[Sam Davis]: 28:47

but my addiction really escalated and took off when that relationship really hit

[Dan]: 28:52

[Sam Davis]: 28:52

the tank

[matt_brown]: 28:53

yes

[Dan]: 28:54

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 28:56

it can

[matt_brown]: 28:56

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 28:56

be pretty traumatic

[Dan]: 28:57

all we need is is a reason you know

[Sam Davis]: 29:00

[Dan]: 29:00

[matt_brown]: 29:00

[Dan]: 29:00

mean i think that jean is already in there we just need a reason

[Sam Davis]: 29:04

[Dan]: 29:04

to bring it to the surface

[Sam Davis]: 29:05

[matt_brown]: 29:06

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 29:07

[matt_brown]: 29:07

well dan let me ask

[Sam Davis]: 29:08

yeah

[matt_brown]: 29:08

you you and sam

[Sam Davis]: 29:10

[matt_brown]: 29:10

have known each other for a while and again without getting into your son's story tell me how you came

[Sam Davis]: 29:15

[matt_brown]: 29:15

to know sam and and what's and in your life as a result of the work that you guys did together

[Dan]: 29:20

well

[matt_brown]: 29:22

[Dan]: 29:22

i had you know a similar problem

[Sam Davis]: 29:24

yeah

[Dan]: 29:24

with

[Sam Davis]: 29:25

[Dan]: 29:25

my son and

[Sam Davis]: 29:26

[matt_brown]: 29:27

yeah

[Dan]: 29:27

it never dawned on me

[Sam Davis]: 29:29

[Dan]: 29:30

[matt_brown]: 29:30

yeah

[Dan]: 29:31

that i was a hundred per cent

[Sam Davis]: 29:34

yeah

[Dan]: 29:34

enabling

[Sam Davis]: 29:35

[Dan]: 29:36

everything that was

[matt_brown]: 29:36

[Dan]: 29:36

going on while i was also a hundred percent thinking that i was not

[Sam Davis]: 29:40

[matt_brown]: 29:41

[Dan]: 29:42

[Sam Davis]: 29:42

[Dan]: 29:43

m the

[matt_brown]: 29:43

yeah

[Dan]: 29:43

one thing that does perplex me to this day is that

[Sam Davis]: 29:46

[Dan]: 29:48

it's clear that

[matt_brown]: 29:50

[Dan]: 29:50

boundaries

[Sam Davis]: 29:50

[Dan]: 29:51

is exactly what made me

[Sam Davis]: 29:53

yeah

[Dan]: 29:53

quit doing what i was doing personally

[Sam Davis]: 29:57

[Dan]: 29:57

but i never made that

[Sam Davis]: 29:59

yeah

[Dan]: 29:59

cognizant

[Sam Davis]: 30:00

[Dan]: 30:01

until sam looked me in the eye and said

[Sam Davis]: 30:04

yeah

[Dan]: 30:04

you've got to put up boundaries

[matt_brown]: 30:05

yeah

[Dan]: 30:05

and you've got to hold them

[Sam Davis]: 30:06

[Dan]: 30:08

you know and you know i arrived at at meeting with sam

[matt_brown]: 30:11

[Dan]: 30:11

because i was at the end of my rope

[Sam Davis]: 30:12

[Dan]: 30:13

you know i

[Sam Davis]: 30:14

[Dan]: 30:15

i did not know

[Sam Davis]: 30:16

yeah

[Dan]: 30:16

what to do

[matt_brown]: 30:17

[Dan]: 30:17

i did not know how to do it everything i had done had failed

[Sam Davis]: 30:22

[Dan]: 30:23

and we just got on the phone started calling around

[Sam Davis]: 30:25

[Dan]: 30:27

and his name popped up

[Sam Davis]: 30:28

yeah

[Dan]: 30:29

and

[Sam Davis]: 30:30

[Dan]: 30:30

you know i don't think he was planning

[matt_brown]: 30:31

[Dan]: 30:32

on doing what he did that day i don't think he was planning on somebody sending a private jet to pick him up

[matt_brown]: 30:36

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 30:37

[Dan]: 30:37

but

[Sam Davis]: 30:38

i wasn't

[Dan]: 30:38

we did

[Sam Davis]: 30:39

expecting

[Dan]: 30:39

what we had

[Sam Davis]: 30:39

that

[Dan]: 30:40

[Sam Davis]: 30:40

i was in a swamp in

[Dan]: 30:41

what

[Sam Davis]: 30:41

south

[matt_brown]: 30:41

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 30:41

carolina digging

[matt_brown]: 30:42

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 30:42

plow points looking for civil war relics

[matt_brown]: 30:44

yeah

[Dan]: 30:45

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 30:45

when i was introduced to you that

[matt_brown]: 30:46

[Sam Davis]: 30:47

day and that was not what i was pecting to do that evening i was

[matt_brown]: 30:50

[Sam Davis]: 30:50

expecting

[Dan]: 30:51

[Sam Davis]: 30:51

to go out to dinner with the family that

[matt_brown]: 30:52

[Sam Davis]: 30:53

evening and maybe swimming the hotel pool or you know just something

[Dan]: 30:56

[Sam Davis]: 30:57

i was not expecting

[Dan]: 30:58

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 30:58

that

[matt_brown]: 30:58

[Dan]: 30:58

yeah well i wasn't expectin to have to do that but

[matt_brown]: 31:02

[Dan]: 31:03

blessedly i was able to do it and even more blessedly he was willing

[matt_brown]: 31:07

[Dan]: 31:07

to do it and it all worked out it worked out very

[matt_brown]: 31:10

yeah

[Dan]: 31:11

well and it opened my eyes to a lot of a lot of things that

[matt_brown]: 31:15

[Dan]: 31:15

you know in conversations with sam through out the time because

[Sam Davis]: 31:17

yeah

[Dan]: 31:17

we kind

[matt_brown]: 31:18

may

[Dan]: 31:18

of become friends since then although it began as a business deal

[Sam Davis]: 31:22

[matt_brown]: 31:25

[Dan]: 31:25

i think

[Sam Davis]: 31:25

[Dan]: 31:25

people that at

[matt_brown]: 31:27

yeah

[Dan]: 31:28

use drugs or alcohol to medicate symptoms

[matt_brown]: 31:32

[Dan]: 31:32

in their lives up

[matt_brown]: 31:35

[Dan]: 31:36

all stand to gain a lot by talking to guys like you who do this professionally because although i don't drink any more i still suffer from the same same anxieties now that i had when i did medicate those anxieties with alcohol

[matt_brown]: 31:54

[Dan]: 31:55

and i've learned a lot of tools just talking with sam that still apply to those anxieties today of how to get by them you know in a faster and easier way so you know that's what one thing that really piqued my interest to this and why may ask too many questions when he's around so forth and so on because i still i apply those things to me now um

[matt_brown]: 32:22

[Dan]: 32:23

you know it's it this is

[matt_brown]: 32:25

yeah

[Dan]: 32:25

something that i believe more people ought to do to be honest with you because even those that haven't done like like you or i mat that was sam that no we found a reason to really start hitting it hard and we did it but you know if this stuff was out there in a more prevalent way in my opinion

[matt_brown]: 32:46

[Dan]: 32:48

you might be able to head that off at the pass so to speak on a lot of folks before they went off that deep end and made them realize you know this could turn into a real problem i think it'd be a hell

[matt_brown]: 33:00

[Dan]: 33:00

of a lot easier to stop it before the train got

[matt_brown]: 33:03

[Dan]: 33:03

rolling down hill then now then after

[matt_brown]: 33:08

well and i think we live in a culture where there's a stigma

[Dan]: 33:11

yeah

[matt_brown]: 33:11

around addiction

[Dan]: 33:12

yeah

[matt_brown]: 33:13

it's it's

[Dan]: 33:13

[matt_brown]: 33:13

a shameful thing in our society for people to talk about drug addiction or alcoholism you know right now as you're talking about the struggles that you had you know you're you're quick to talk about the fact that you're still feeling a lot of anxiety that

[Dan]: 33:28

[matt_brown]: 33:28

the anxieties are still there and i think that a lot of people want to look at this for the most part as a mental tissue and rightly so it is but there's i think there's other components to it i think everybody on this planet has some degree of self medicating numbing behavior whether it's getting on facebook or instagram

[Dan]: 33:49

[matt_brown]: 33:49

or or you know going out

[Dan]: 33:51

[matt_brown]: 33:51

and working eight

[Dan]: 33:53

yeah

[matt_brown]: 33:53

hours a week you know whatever it is

[Dan]: 33:54

okay

[matt_brown]: 33:55

we all do it to some degree it's just that for a lot of us it becomes compulsive and it becomes this thing that we can't stop doing it's the only tool we've got

[Dan]: 34:04

[matt_brown]: 34:04

[Dan]: 34:04

agree i completely agree and i actually had a friend say something this morning to me

[matt_brown]: 34:10

[Dan]: 34:10

that that really made a lot of sense and i think it's pertinent for right and that is because you got two choices in life you can

[matt_brown]: 34:18

[Dan]: 34:18

give up you can keep going and they both

[matt_brown]: 34:21

yeah

[Dan]: 34:21

hurt

[matt_brown]: 34:23

[Dan]: 34:24

and that

[matt_brown]: 34:24

[Dan]: 34:24

that that's a

[matt_brown]: 34:25

yeah

[Dan]: 34:25

pretty damn good saying it's also very very true but one even though they both hurt one will be productive and one will not

[matt_brown]: 34:33

yeah

[Dan]: 34:34

and it's really just that simple

[Sam Davis]: 34:36

exactly it's not rocket science

[matt_brown]: 34:37

and with

[Sam Davis]: 34:38

you know

[Dan]: 34:38

[Sam Davis]: 34:38

you're either going

[matt_brown]: 34:39

[Sam Davis]: 34:39

life is coming at you and it's going to continue to come at you and

[Dan]: 34:43

[Sam Davis]: 34:43

you're going a go through one

[Dan]: 34:44

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 34:44

thing and you're either going a come

[matt_brown]: 34:45

[Sam Davis]: 34:46

out of that one thing more wounded and messed up unable to

[matt_brown]: 34:49

[Sam Davis]: 34:50

to appropriately handle the next thing that comes along or you can come out of that one

[Dan]: 34:54

[Sam Davis]: 34:54

thing more stronger in order to handle the next thing that's come along and because

[Dan]: 34:59

fry

[Sam Davis]: 35:00

the next thing is common oh

[Dan]: 35:02

it is

[matt_brown]: 35:03

one of them is going to hurt a lot more for a shorter amount of time and the other one's going to hurt a lot less for a way longer

[Sam Davis]: 35:08

yeah

[matt_brown]: 35:08

period

[Sam Davis]: 35:09

i saw

[matt_brown]: 35:09

of time

[Sam Davis]: 35:09

a facebook

[Dan]: 35:09

that's right

[Sam Davis]: 35:09

post a couple of years ago that said being fat as hard losing weight as hard choose your

[matt_brown]: 35:15

[Sam Davis]: 35:15

hard

[matt_brown]: 35:15

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 35:16

and you couldn't put that into any scenario in your life being a bottom

[Dan]: 35:20

[Sam Davis]: 35:20

alcoholic is hard being a fentonal

[matt_brown]: 35:23

[Sam Davis]: 35:23

addict

[Dan]: 35:23

[Sam Davis]: 35:24

is hard getting sober as hard choose

[matt_brown]: 35:26

[Sam Davis]: 35:26

your hard you know setting boundaries

[Dan]: 35:28

[Sam Davis]: 35:28

as a family member is hard

[Dan]: 35:30

yeah oh

[Sam Davis]: 35:31

putting your asking your loved one to remove

[Dan]: 35:33

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 35:33

themselves from your prey and

[matt_brown]: 35:35

[Sam Davis]: 35:35

and your little fortress of solitude called your home is hard

[Dan]: 35:39

[Sam Davis]: 35:40

but you have to choose your

[matt_brown]: 35:41

[Sam Davis]: 35:41

hard here no one's going to get you get

[Dan]: 35:43

now you

[Sam Davis]: 35:44

your

[Dan]: 35:44

have

[Sam Davis]: 35:44

moving

[Dan]: 35:44

to chew

[Sam Davis]: 35:44

forward

[Dan]: 35:44

it and choose it every day in every scenario

[Sam Davis]: 35:47

yeah

[Dan]: 35:47

no not just this one that's just one of the more difficult ones

[Sam Davis]: 35:50

yeah

[matt_brown]: 35:51

[Sam Davis]: 35:51

yeah you know you all matt and dan i've had

[matt_brown]: 35:55

[Sam Davis]: 35:55

a couple of tik tok videos i've had a couple

[matt_brown]: 35:57

[Sam Davis]: 35:57

of therapists that have commented on my

[matt_brown]: 36:00

[Sam Davis]: 36:00

post that says that they disagree wholeheartedly

[matt_brown]: 36:03

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 36:04

with having a loved one leave their house they say put them on the street right because they're falling into that belief system that we're actually casting them out on the street or that's what families are doing no families are offering them a way out and offering them a program to get well but if they don't choose that then there saying hey

[matt_brown]: 36:23

[Sam Davis]: 36:23

listen well it's just too painful for me to be around you're going to have to leave and go figure it out you know but now that help is

[matt_brown]: 36:29

[Sam Davis]: 36:29

always out there and i've had therapist one yesterday comment and say that

[matt_brown]: 36:33

[Sam Davis]: 36:34

you know

[matt_brown]: 36:34

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 36:34

they can set boundaries without having to kick them out on the streets how do you think that would have

[matt_brown]: 36:39

[Sam Davis]: 36:39

worked you guys

[matt_brown]: 36:41

[Sam Davis]: 36:41

with you all or for me or for

[matt_brown]: 36:43

[Sam Davis]: 36:44

your loved ones i mean how do you think that would have panned out

[Dan]: 36:48

that's a really

[matt_brown]: 36:48

yeah

[Dan]: 36:48

good question and one that

[Sam Davis]: 36:49

[Dan]: 36:49

i am very very

[matt_brown]: 36:52

[Dan]: 36:53

i'm in a very good position to answer

[matt_brown]: 36:55

[Dan]: 36:55

that i was kicked out

[matt_brown]: 36:57

[Dan]: 36:59

and i'm talking about pulled off of a nipple that was pretty nice and

[matt_brown]: 37:06

yeah

[Dan]: 37:07

it was there at eight a m that morning and at noon

[matt_brown]: 37:10

[Dan]: 37:10

it was non existent fast forward

[matt_brown]: 37:14

[Dan]: 37:14

to you know being

[matt_brown]: 37:16

[Dan]: 37:16

able to come back home reconcile everything get married have a child and

[matt_brown]: 37:23

yeah

[Dan]: 37:24

know that person that

[matt_brown]: 37:27

[Dan]: 37:27

did put me out on the street truly loved his daughter in law and to know that i was having some trouble

[matt_brown]: 37:37

yah

[Dan]: 37:38

that i knew could not be fixed it was that fear of being

[matt_brown]: 37:44

[Dan]: 37:44

put back out on that street it kept

[matt_brown]: 37:47

[Dan]: 37:47

me hooked to do things the way i did and i didn't do it for a minute i did it for seven years until he died you know so being kicked out on the street that sounds like a bad thing but in

[matt_brown]: 38:02

[Dan]: 38:02

my mind now

[matt_brown]: 38:06

yeah

[Dan]: 38:06

you sometimes man you got to

[Sam Davis]: 38:08

[Dan]: 38:08

get to the bottom before you

[Sam Davis]: 38:10

[Dan]: 38:10

ever start climbing out of that hole and everybody's bottom looks a little different

[matt_brown]: 38:14

[Dan]: 38:16

and for me with my personality which sam you know me is

[matt_brown]: 38:21

yeah

[Dan]: 38:21

probably as well as anybody if i'm going to do something i'm going to do it all

[matt_brown]: 38:24

[Dan]: 38:24

the way even when it was bad things i did it to the very best of my ability

[Sam Davis]: 38:29

[Dan]: 38:31

and my ability sadly was pretty good

[Sam Davis]: 38:34

yeah

[Dan]: 38:35

so you know i had to reach a rock bottom

[matt_brown]: 38:38

[Dan]: 38:39

to establish the fear to not do it again and let's face it we can sugar coated all we want but fear is the greatest motivator on earth

[matt_brown]: 38:48

[Sam Davis]: 38:49

and it can also keep people stuck

[Dan]: 38:51

i m

[Sam Davis]: 38:54

until that pain gets enough

[matt_brown]: 38:55

i think i think there's one

[Dan]: 38:57

m yeah

[matt_brown]: 38:57

motivator that's greater than fear and that's hope i think fear can motivate someone in a very intense way for a very

[Dan]: 39:05

okay

[matt_brown]: 39:05

short amount of time but if you want to sustain that motivation it has to at some point be converted into a hope

[Dan]: 39:13

it does but

[matt_brown]: 39:13

i really believe

[Dan]: 39:13

[matt_brown]: 39:14

that

[Dan]: 39:14

would only add

[Sam Davis]: 39:15

[Dan]: 39:15

that in my opinion you can't reach that

[matt_brown]: 39:18

yeah

[Dan]: 39:18

hope without that fear first

[matt_brown]: 39:22

no no i agree with that i do and say i'm to answer your question i'm going to read something that i came across this week end that really just as i've been i've been thinking on it for the last probably three days and it says this the level of cho so we develop is proportional to the integrity of our boundaries the more we let go of control the stronger our boundaries become this is a paradox letting go creates strong boundaries you know the more we try to control the

[Dan]: 39:52

yeah

[matt_brown]: 39:52

weaker our boundaries are when we have strong boundaries what it

[Dan]: 39:58

[matt_brown]: 39:58

really means is that we're not we're not trying to control it anymore we

[Dan]: 40:00

yeah

[matt_brown]: 40:01

know where our limits are and we're staying inside of those limits and anything that happens on the other side of those limits is none of our business any more we can't control that and i think that is amily's when they set that boundary to be able to say listen i cannot allow this to continue to go on in my home it robs me of my peace of mind it robs our family of our safety i can't allow this continue to happen i won't allow this to continue to happen what we're really doing is we're letting go of our ability that we think we had in the first place that we never did of really trying to control that to begin with i think that that to give someone the choice to

[Dan]: 40:36

[matt_brown]: 40:36

say listen you can do this i'm not going to try to do this any more

[Dan]: 40:39

[matt_brown]: 40:40

but if you're going to do this

[Dan]: 40:41

yeah

[matt_brown]: 40:41

you can't do it here

[Dan]: 40:41

[matt_brown]: 40:43

is really a family saying i'm not going to try to control

[Sam Davis]: 40:45

[matt_brown]: 40:46

this any more i'm going

[Dan]: 40:47

[matt_brown]: 40:47

to get free

[Sam Davis]: 40:47

[matt_brown]: 40:47

because that control is just as much

[Sam Davis]: 40:49

[matt_brown]: 40:49

keeping us a prisoner

[Dan]: 40:50

[Sam Davis]: 40:51

[matt_brown]: 40:51

as it is them

[Sam Davis]: 40:53

[matt_brown]: 40:53

and so i think that that when we let go of control our

[Sam Davis]: 40:56

[matt_brown]: 40:56

boundaries actually get stronger and it has to happen that way

[Sam Davis]: 40:59

i agree a hundred per cent hundred percent i mean

[Dan]: 41:02

i do too

[matt_brown]: 41:03

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 41:03

yeah

[Dan]: 41:03

i think you should at least discuss

[matt_brown]: 41:05

[Dan]: 41:05

though when you say something like that

[matt_brown]: 41:07

[Dan]: 41:08

coming

[matt_brown]: 41:09

[Dan]: 41:09

from someone who's looked at it from both sides of the fence there needs to be a follow up on that that people i think as a whole don't have a problem with boundaries i think what they have is a fear of the unknown once those boundaries are set and

[matt_brown]: 41:26

yep

[Dan]: 41:27

you know

[matt_brown]: 41:28

[Dan]: 41:28

and now trust

[matt_brown]: 41:30

[Dan]: 41:30

is a valuable thing and it's very easily destroyed and it's down there

[matt_brown]: 41:33

yeah

[Dan]: 41:33

impossible to rebuild you know i still struggle with that such the text i get every day you know i mean i can get one typo where sere typed a word from him to me that he didn't even mean the type he's only got eight fingers for god's sake your type and scales aren't really good um and i will call him he's like why are you calling me out so i want to hear your

[matt_brown]: 41:58

[Dan]: 41:58

voice you slurnthem down words what's going on and he'll get mad scream at me tell me the part of his life is over and on and on and on but that's only a symptom of the fact that trust was destroyed and we're two years down the road and can't tell you

[matt_brown]: 42:13

[Dan]: 42:13

that it's one bit better it's hopeful it ain't better

[Sam Davis]: 42:17

well i can tell you buddy is that when you mentioned his name now the last at we've

[Dan]: 42:23

[Sam Davis]: 42:23

been on this

[Dan]: 42:24

[Sam Davis]: 42:24

side of the fence how many years a couple of years right

[Dan]: 42:26

two year over over two

[Sam Davis]: 42:28

over

[Dan]: 42:28

years

[Sam Davis]: 42:28

two years right so you and i have had

[Dan]: 42:30

yeah

[matt_brown]: 42:30

[Sam Davis]: 42:30

you know we live across the country from each other and we don't

[matt_brown]: 42:32

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 42:32

see each other all the time but but i do know that every time that you have mentioned his name you light up

[matt_brown]: 42:38

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 42:39

you light up and you

[Dan]: 42:40

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 42:40

get

[Dan]: 42:40

i'm

[Sam Davis]: 42:40

this

[Dan]: 42:40

proud of it he's doing extremely well

[Sam Davis]: 42:42

yeah

[Dan]: 42:43

but i don't

[matt_brown]: 42:43

[Dan]: 42:43

trust them

[Sam Davis]: 42:45

but both

[Dan]: 42:46

to say that i do is a lie and

[matt_brown]: 42:48

[Dan]: 42:48

i absolutely refuse to lie in my dad

[matt_brown]: 42:50

[Dan]: 42:51

more than likely did

[matt_brown]: 42:54

[Dan]: 42:54

not trusting me either even though he died was rose delivered drunk

[matt_brown]: 43:00

yeah

[Dan]: 43:00

at sixty two years old

[matt_brown]: 43:03

[Dan]: 43:04

it's not very old fellow

[Sam Davis]: 43:05

yeah i'm not far

[matt_brown]: 43:06

[Sam Davis]: 43:06

from

[matt_brown]: 43:06

it's

[Sam Davis]: 43:06

there

[matt_brown]: 43:07

a lot a

[Dan]: 43:09

got me either

[Sam Davis]: 43:09

yeah

[Dan]: 43:10

not ten years away

[Sam Davis]: 43:12

but

[matt_brown]: 43:12

[Sam Davis]: 43:12

when you were mentioning his

[Dan]: 43:13

[Sam Davis]: 43:13

name prior to this and just the hours

[matt_brown]: 43:18

[Sam Davis]: 43:18

that i was involved in this you

[matt_brown]: 43:20

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 43:20

know in your life at that point um your head would hold

[matt_brown]: 43:24

[Sam Davis]: 43:25

would hang low you mentioned when you were dealing

[Dan]: 43:28

i was i was ashamed of it and i was ashamed of it because i thought

[Sam Davis]: 43:31

[Dan]: 43:31

that it was my

[Sam Davis]: 43:33

[Dan]: 43:33

fault

[matt_brown]: 43:34

[Dan]: 43:34

i thought that i had done something wrong

[Sam Davis]: 43:36

[matt_brown]: 43:37

yeah

[Dan]: 43:38

and being a father

[Sam Davis]: 43:39

[Dan]: 43:40

to make this okay and

[matt_brown]: 43:42

okay

[Dan]: 43:42

i told myself a thousand times that i never did anything

[Sam Davis]: 43:45

yeah

[Dan]: 43:45

from the time he was one year old until

[Sam Davis]: 43:47

[matt_brown]: 43:48

yeah

[Dan]: 43:48

the time that you and i met i never did anything

[matt_brown]: 43:51

yeah

[Dan]: 43:52

in words or actions that made this okay

[Sam Davis]: 43:55

yeah

[Dan]: 43:55

never

[Sam Davis]: 43:56

[Dan]: 43:57

but i still blame myself and to a degree i do to this day

[Sam Davis]: 44:01

[Dan]: 44:02

because i know that had an

[Sam Davis]: 44:04

[Dan]: 44:04

eye not believed

[Sam Davis]: 44:06

[matt_brown]: 44:07

yah

[Dan]: 44:07

what i knew to be false

[Sam Davis]: 44:09

yeah

[Dan]: 44:09

out of denial

[Sam Davis]: 44:11

[Dan]: 44:11

i probably could have stopped it

[Sam Davis]: 44:13

[Dan]: 44:13

i had that amount of

[Sam Davis]: 44:14

yeah

[Dan]: 44:14

power with it i definitely could have prolonged it from happening

[Sam Davis]: 44:20

you know with any family though

[matt_brown]: 44:21

[Sam Davis]: 44:22

as a parent i mean when my kid comes home

[matt_brown]: 44:25

[Sam Davis]: 44:25

he hates school

[Dan]: 44:26

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:26

he'd probably rather do a weekend

[Dan]: 44:27

[Sam Davis]: 44:27

in jail than go to school

[Dan]: 44:28

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:29

but when he would come home

[matt_brown]: 44:31

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:32

with a bad grade or he would come home with some sort of something

[matt_brown]: 44:37

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:37

i know that i provided him a school to go to i know i provide

[matt_brown]: 44:40

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:40

him some structure for him to do that school and give all the god

[matt_brown]: 44:45

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:45

and said i can he's got

[matt_brown]: 44:47

[Sam Davis]: 44:47

to take ownership of that bad grade yet it's just i think it's in us that we want to take ownership of

[matt_brown]: 44:53

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 44:53

there short falls or their problems or their struggles or

[matt_brown]: 44:57

[Sam Davis]: 44:57

their you know

[Dan]: 44:58

[Sam Davis]: 44:58

acting like an ass you know we want to take responsibility

[Dan]: 45:01

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 45:01

for some of that i think it's

[matt_brown]: 45:02

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 45:02

normal and and when you bring in such formidable opponent is addiction and all the stress and trauma and chaos that comes along with that it's natural for us to want to

[matt_brown]: 45:12

[Sam Davis]: 45:12

blame ourselves for it every family member goes through

[Dan]: 45:15

[matt_brown]: 45:15

[Sam Davis]: 45:15

that some degree

[matt_brown]: 45:17

[Dan]: 45:18

yeah i do and i certainly did

[Sam Davis]: 45:20

yeah

[Dan]: 45:20

but

[Sam Davis]: 45:21

yeah

[Dan]: 45:22

a lot of people and most

[matt_brown]: 45:23

[Dan]: 45:23

most assuredly you the most as

[Sam Davis]: 45:25

yeah

[Dan]: 45:25

has

[Sam Davis]: 45:26

yeah

[matt_brown]: 45:26

[Dan]: 45:27

given me

[matt_brown]: 45:28

yeah

[Dan]: 45:28

up an off ramp so to speak of blaming myself

[Sam Davis]: 45:31

[Dan]: 45:32

for

[matt_brown]: 45:33

yeah

[Dan]: 45:33

for those problems i mean really the only ones i'm responsible

[Sam Davis]: 45:35

[Dan]: 45:36

for were

[matt_brown]: 45:36

yeah

[Dan]: 45:36

my own

[Sam Davis]: 45:37

[Dan]: 45:38

[matt_brown]: 45:39

[Sam Davis]: 45:39

[Dan]: 45:40

i got by that luckily

[Sam Davis]: 45:43

now

[matt_brown]: 45:43

yah

[Sam Davis]: 45:43

there's a couple of things examples about boundaries you're a cowboy

[Dan]: 45:48

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 45:49

dan i mean matt you've been around horses

[matt_brown]: 45:51

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 45:51

you've been around ranches and

[matt_brown]: 45:53

[Sam Davis]: 45:54

now i grew up around cattle

[Dan]: 45:55

[Sam Davis]: 45:55

and all that horses and

[Dan]: 45:57

[Sam Davis]: 45:58

corral a round ring the

[Dan]: 46:02

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 46:02

corral when you're breaking a horse the

[matt_brown]: 46:06

[Sam Davis]: 46:06

corral doesn't move the boundary doesn't move the boundary just sits there

[matt_brown]: 46:10

[Sam Davis]: 46:11

right you're not

[Dan]: 46:12

[Sam Davis]: 46:13

the corral

[Dan]: 46:13

[Sam Davis]: 46:13

isn't the one break in the horse the corral isn't you know trying to put the saddle on the coral is just the boundaries and that sits there

[matt_brown]: 46:20

okay

[Sam Davis]: 46:20

doesn't move it just removes

[Dan]: 46:22

[Sam Davis]: 46:22

options to do other things the horse has to

[matt_brown]: 46:25

yeah

[Dan]: 46:26

[Sam Davis]: 46:26

go through the experience that the horse has to go through to get to a position to be willing to be broken to take the saddle right

[Dan]: 46:33

mhm

[Sam Davis]: 46:33

families are boundaries

[Dan]: 46:35

[Sam Davis]: 46:35

are everywhere in our lives and accepted our property lines um you don't have open land at your place dan

[Dan]: 46:42

[Sam Davis]: 46:42

where everybody is just

[Dan]: 46:43

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 46:43

willy

[matt_brown]: 46:43

[Sam Davis]: 46:43

nearly able to come on and do whatever

[matt_brown]: 46:44

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 46:45

you've got

[matt_brown]: 46:45

[Sam Davis]: 46:46

a huge ranch

[Dan]: 46:46

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 46:46

but there's boundaries of that ranch there's boundaries

[Dan]: 46:50

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 46:50

in the water way that

[matt_brown]: 46:51

[Sam Davis]: 46:51

i'm on right now i mean if you go off that boundary you're going to have some consequence you're gonna run aground and hit some rocks right there's boundaries

[Dan]: 46:58

[Sam Davis]: 46:59

into my home there's boundaries to my property there you know we thrive on boundaries we survive on boundaries yet when it comes to setting boundaries with a loved one family struggle so much and they can't wrap their head around it

[Dan]: 47:12

[matt_brown]: 47:13

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 47:13

boundaries are everywhere in our lives we operate on boundaries

[Dan]: 47:16

[matt_brown]: 47:19

kay

[Sam Davis]: 47:19

mix

[Dan]: 47:19

no that we

[Sam Davis]: 47:20

[Dan]: 47:20

do and i just feel like that i blamed myself simply because of how i was raised

[matt_brown]: 47:25

[Dan]: 47:25

with such strict boundaries boundaries

[matt_brown]: 47:28

[Dan]: 47:28

that literally in my mind to this day

[matt_brown]: 47:31

[Dan]: 47:31

were ridiculous

[matt_brown]: 47:35

[Dan]: 47:36

but so when when it came my turn to set those boundaries i set them at about fifty per cent of what they were set on me because i found it to be ridiculous how i was brought up and

[matt_brown]: 47:48

[Dan]: 47:48

i think i should have went that hundred because it's the only thing that kept me from

[matt_brown]: 47:52

okay

[Dan]: 47:52

yes i drank too much and was a you know

[matt_brown]: 47:55

[Dan]: 47:56

know card carrying alcoholic

[matt_brown]: 47:58

[Dan]: 47:58

for years but

[matt_brown]: 47:59

yeah

[Dan]: 48:00

i never touched a drug in my life to this day i never did and it was

[matt_brown]: 48:04

yeah

[Dan]: 48:04

that fear of him that you

[matt_brown]: 48:07

[Dan]: 48:08

know made made me not use drugs i certainly could have afforded it at one time

[Sam Davis]: 48:12

[Dan]: 48:13

and i was around it not like kids these days but i mean i was around

[matt_brown]: 48:17

[Dan]: 48:17

it i never did it at one time fifty two years have i ever done it weed one time

[matt_brown]: 48:23

[Dan]: 48:24

and i thought octipises were chasing me up and i ran off so that didn't go

[matt_brown]: 48:28

yeah

[Dan]: 48:28

real well

[matt_brown]: 48:30

yeah

[Dan]: 48:30

i never did that again but i never did any other thing ever other than boots but when i quit i was drinking two

[matt_brown]: 48:36

[Dan]: 48:37

half gallons of vodka day

[Sam Davis]: 48:40

was a bottom shelf back

[Dan]: 48:44

oh no sam i'll get the good stuff

[matt_brown]: 48:47

[Sam Davis]: 48:49

i was just checking

[matt_brown]: 48:50

[Sam Davis]: 48:50

because

[matt_brown]: 48:51

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 48:51

it really is really telling when you when you

[Dan]: 48:53

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 48:53

got a person of some means and they're drinking the bottom shelf this means that things have gotten seriously out of control

[Dan]: 49:02

i had beer

[matt_brown]: 49:02

[Dan]: 49:03

tap i had beer taps installed in my house

[Sam Davis]: 49:05

yeah

[Dan]: 49:06

frosted mugs

[Sam Davis]: 49:08

[matt_brown]: 49:08

[Dan]: 49:08

a ay m

[matt_brown]: 49:11

you are one of them fancy alcoholics

[Dan]: 49:13

exactly yes yes sir

[Sam Davis]: 49:15

yeah

[Dan]: 49:15

he be i had three different

[matt_brown]: 49:16

yeah

[Dan]: 49:16

kinds of beer

[Sam Davis]: 49:17

yeah

[Dan]: 49:18

old vodka

[matt_brown]: 49:18

[Dan]: 49:18

i made rum drinks at night before i went to bed with no ice so it didn't overflow when it melted so i could drink that before i got out of bed so i could go take a shower

[Sam Davis]: 49:28

you know jamie johnson the country singer told me one time he said used to drink so much

[Dan]: 49:33

[Sam Davis]: 49:33

by jack daniels by the drum

[Dan]: 49:36

[Sam Davis]: 49:37

[Dan]: 49:38

[Sam Davis]: 49:38

lived there

[matt_brown]: 49:38

yah

[Sam Davis]: 49:38

in tennessee you know he said i would buy he said no lie

[matt_brown]: 49:41

yeah

[Dan]: 49:41

take

[Sam Davis]: 49:41

by a drum of a barrel of it and set it in the house he said i haven't had a drink and

[Dan]: 49:47

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 49:47

i think he said twelve years or so he said i drank in twelve years but when i drank so much when bepi still tasted to this day

[Dan]: 49:55

oh yeah i'm still hung over twenty four

[Sam Davis]: 49:57

[Dan]: 49:57

years later

[matt_brown]: 49:58

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 49:59

yeah

[Dan]: 50:00

[matt_brown]: 50:01

well gentlemen we we're going to run short on time here and just a moment dan i can't thank you enough for coming on here today and being a part of this with us and sharing your story can i ask you just one more question

[Dan]: 50:12

sure

[matt_brown]: 50:13

there may be some parents here that are still in the spot that you were in before you

[Sam Davis]: 50:18

[matt_brown]: 50:18

and sam met one another

[Sam Davis]: 50:20

yeah

[matt_brown]: 50:20

if you had one bit of advice to give parents that might be listening to this and this what would that be

[Dan]: 50:25

advice is is very precise and very simple and it comes down to

[matt_brown]: 50:31

yeah

[Dan]: 50:31

two choices one you can do nothing and guarantee traumatic experience you can do something and at least give yourself

[matt_brown]: 50:44

[Dan]: 50:45

that most paramount hope you talked about earlier

[Sam Davis]: 50:49

yeah you know

[matt_brown]: 50:50

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 50:50

dan there's one thing i want to say that i meant to say before so i don't know how we'll throw this in there r editor

[matt_brown]: 50:56

you can

[Sam Davis]: 50:57

i don't know how this is going a hape but here it

[Dan]: 50:59

[Sam Davis]: 50:59

is you know dan

[matt_brown]: 51:01

let

[Sam Davis]: 51:01

i was

[matt_brown]: 51:01

let her

[Sam Davis]: 51:01

going

[matt_brown]: 51:01

roll

[Sam Davis]: 51:01

through

[matt_brown]: 51:01

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 51:02

my notes and my phone

[Dan]: 51:03

[Sam Davis]: 51:03

the other

[matt_brown]: 51:03

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 51:03

day looking for something and i was ran across something when i was with you and you were out hunting

[matt_brown]: 51:08

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 51:08

cats at night that evening

[Dan]: 51:11

[Sam Davis]: 51:11

and

[matt_brown]: 51:11

[Sam Davis]: 51:11

it i look to nature a lot to see how the world works and i can relate nature to our human experience and what families doing how we operate out here in the world those dogs chase

[Dan]: 51:23

[Sam Davis]: 51:23

that

[matt_brown]: 51:23

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 51:24

at up that tree and the dogs were barking and tree in it and you were around the tree

[matt_brown]: 51:30

[Sam Davis]: 51:30

there was no way that that cat was coming down out of that tree on its own it wasn't happening there was no

[Dan]: 51:37

[Sam Davis]: 51:37

way i

[Dan]: 51:38

right

[Sam Davis]: 51:38

looked at that and i said this relates

[matt_brown]: 51:40

[Sam Davis]: 51:40

to families families at the bottom of the tree chasing and begging and screaming and yelling and surrounding and and pushing and trying to control and

[matt_brown]: 51:53

[Sam Davis]: 51:53

manage but if they were to back not give it any food not giving any water not not pull the dogs off back away cat ill come down out of the tree and do what you needed to do now you needed it to do something else you weren't there to get the cat down out of the tree and let it go on the merry way but that

[matt_brown]: 52:15

ah oh

[Sam Davis]: 52:16

good

[matt_brown]: 52:17

oh he can't hear us

[Sam Davis]: 52:20

[matt_brown]: 52:21

finish the story though because because well well i'll be able to put this

[Sam Davis]: 52:23

right

[matt_brown]: 52:23

together it's all right go ahead

[Sam Davis]: 52:24

when

[matt_brown]: 52:24

and

[Sam Davis]: 52:25

you

[matt_brown]: 52:25

go ahead

[Sam Davis]: 52:25

back

[matt_brown]: 52:25

and finish

[Sam Davis]: 52:25

away

[matt_brown]: 52:25

it up

[Sam Davis]: 52:26

and stop trying to control it

[matt_brown]: 52:28

yes

[Sam Davis]: 52:28

the cat's coming down i goin to do what you needed to do you know

[matt_brown]: 52:33

[Sam Davis]: 52:34

that's what i got out of

[matt_brown]: 52:35

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 52:35

you may not

[matt_brown]: 52:36

yeah

[Sam Davis]: 52:36

can

[matt_brown]: 52:36

you

[Sam Davis]: 52:36

use

[matt_brown]: 52:36

bet

[Sam Davis]: 52:36

that man i don't know but it was a pretty good

[matt_brown]: 52:39

that's all

[Sam Davis]: 52:39

you

[matt_brown]: 52:39

right

[Sam Davis]: 52:39

know i had written that down

[matt_brown]: 52:41

[Sam Davis]: 52:41

in my notes from my experience with you out there when you were cat hunting the cat being the addicted individual and the dogs and you being the family trying to push and control and manage and maneuver

[matt_brown]: 52:53

yeah well i think we're i think we're wrapped up

[Sam Davis]: 52:59

can

[matt_brown]: 52:59

here

[Sam Davis]: 52:59

dan

[matt_brown]: 52:59

sam

[Sam Davis]: 52:59

not

[matt_brown]: 52:59

i think

[Sam Davis]: 52:59

hear us

[matt_brown]: 53:00

dan is he can't hear us any more it looks like his his his phone has stopped recording as well but that's all right are there any parting words you want to leave sam

[Sam Davis]: 53:11

no i just

[matt_brown]: 53:11

[Sam Davis]: 53:11

wanted to ask dan yeah i know at you

[matt_brown]: 53:15

[Sam Davis]: 53:15

can't

[matt_brown]: 53:15

can't

[Sam Davis]: 53:16

hear

[matt_brown]: 53:16

hear

[Sam Davis]: 53:16

[matt_brown]: 53:16

you

[Sam Davis]: 53:16

so you know if dan it was a pleasure having

[matt_brown]: 53:20

[Sam Davis]: 53:20

you own i always admire the

[matt_brown]: 53:23

[Sam Davis]: 53:23

work that you do and the things that you do and the way you see things is always pleasure to be around you and thanks for being on here damn i wish he could hear us though because i wanted to be able

[matt_brown]: 53:34

that's

[Sam Davis]: 53:34

to say

[matt_brown]: 53:34

all

[Sam Davis]: 53:34

good

[matt_brown]: 53:34

right

[Sam Davis]: 53:34

bye

[matt_brown]: 53:35

that's all

[Sam Davis]: 53:35

but

[matt_brown]: 53:35

right well you can give him

[Sam Davis]: 53:38

[matt_brown]: 53:38

[Sam Davis]: 53:38

mean

[matt_brown]: 53:38

call

[Sam Davis]: 53:38

not to us but to the

[matt_brown]: 53:41

i know i know i really appreciate what he said there at the end though i think that was great and for everybody who made it this far end of the podcast thank you for being here we hope you joined us again next

[Sam Davis]: 53:50

[matt_brown]: 53:51

week

[Sam Davis]: 53:51

be well

[matt_brown]: 53:51

have a good one

[Sam Davis]: 53:51

dan i'll call you

Have a question? Ask Matt